Author Topic: APRS - Who is using it  (Read 10639 times)

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bryanthegoon

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APRS - Who is using it
« on: May 23, 2012, 02:02:32 PM »
For a number of reasons I have an interest in APRS, have done some research into the newer Yaesu and Kenwood, mobiles and HTs which have native support (and in some cases builtin GPS). 

For those that are not familiar with it APRS stands for Automatic Packet Reporting System.  What it allows (among other things) is for relaying of position information (gps) between stations (and via gateways the information can be uploaded to websites).  it can also be used for text messaging between stations and various other uses.  APRS makes use of Digipeaters which are digital repeaters and work alittle differently than standard voice repeaters (these allow for relaying of information from repeater to repeater in some cases). 

There are a number of potential uses for this system, but to give you an example from another ham that I met (this is similar to what I want to be able to do)...  He has a Yaesu vx-8dr with a gps, this sends out a beacon with his coordinates on a regular basis (how often changes depending on various factors), he has a yaesu FTM-350AR in his truck which also has a built in GPS, but while he is out and about he sets it up for one-way cross band repeat this way it repeats his beacon signal out to a digipeater, but doesn't bring it back in creating a loop.  Then the signal gets repeated to a gateway and the beacon location information logged to the internet.  What this allows is that while he is out hiking or riding his quad his wife can log in to a website and know exactly where he is, he can also go back later and review the paths he took.  Also if he is out with someone else they can navigate to eachother using the beacons....  This is just one example of how this can be used.  Of course he has over a grand invested between the 2 radios and necessary accessories

So here are my questions.

1. Anyone with experience with APRS can you share how you use it, what it does for you, and any info on what equipment you use.  I am curious of how people are really using this (in addition to the scenario I outlined above)

2. Is anyone on here doing APRS with a more "custom" setup, ie not one of the newer, pricier radios that has built in support, if so how are you doing it, what are you using?

3. I am having a hard time finding a list/search specifically of digipeaters.  In order for this to be worth the investment to me I want to be able to use it in some remote locations and want to see what kind of digipeater access there is in specific areas.  Anyone have any links they can share?

Thanks,
Bryan

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 07:07:58 PM »
As a Prep'er, and a Comm Guy, I just can't see the practical, use for APRS in the Preping Community. Sure for SAR Work, Public Safety, and Industrial Applications, You Bet.... but in the Survival and Prep'en World, OpSec/CommSec says, transmitting your location is a Giant NoNo.
Granted the technology has a "Cool Factor", but what is the advantage it gives, when compared to the disadvantage of Blowing your OpSec/CommSec Identity. APRS was developed at the Naval Academy, to keep track of Midshipman in their 20Ft Sailing Punts, out in the Bay, so that when they got themselves in Deep Dodo, the Rescue Vessel  knew where to look for them. Just Say'en.... YMMV.....
Bruce in alaska AL7AQ

bryanthegoon

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 09:45:18 PM »
While I agree that posting a beacon with your location in a survival/prep situation would in most cases not be the best move....
I can think of a number of somewhat practical reasons to have the equipment and know how to use it, especially given the fact that it is currently used by a number of individuals/organizations.

1. Not everyone is going to be worried about posting their location out there, if there is equipment/protocol available that can potentially tell me where other individuals are in my area why would I not want that.  I do not have to broadcast a beacon to receive beacons from other individuals.  Also depending on hardware involved it would be conceivable to write software which could alert me of a beacon approaching my location (again without having to send a beacon myself)

2. No matter how prepared you are there is always the possibility of getting in a situation where your life depends on someone else finding and helping you, in other words most anything that would lead to a survival/prepper situation could also easily lead to a SAR situation at some point.

3. With an understanding of the technology and protocols it theoretically would be possible to use some level of encryption or obfuscation (you could skew the coordinates by a certain value) to make use of this technology within a trusted group. (I understand using encryption in this way is against FCC regulations but in a true SHTF situation a situation from the FCC is the least of my worries)

4. If there are "emergency services" individuals making use of aprs then I may want to be able to monitor their locations, whether to find them for some reason or to avoid them, either way.

5. In a true "world as we know it has changed" scenario there may be reason to set up meeting spots for trading or whatever (this may not be overly practical)

6. In a scenario where supplies are of vital importance, a system could be setup, for example in a radio in a supply cache somewhere, or in your vehicle, so that if the location of that cache or vehicle changed ( without you changing a setting first) that it would then start putting out a beacon, allowing you to track your stolen stuff.

Some of these might be a little far fetched, but I would rather have the equipment and the know-how than not.  Keep in mind that just because you have the capability does not mean that you have to transmit a beacon with your location.  Also you can actually send out a beacon that has whatever location you want, ie you can draw an individual to a certain location, send someone on a wild goose chase, any number of things.....

All this being said I can think of some current uses for this technology, I spend alot of time in back country, and emergencies do happen. 

Also if I have the ability to relay my travels back to my computer I may be able to later use that information to create maps that may be useful to me in a SHTF situation (Yes I know there are other ways to do this, but if I can just carry my radio in the woods and it does it all for me, as opposed to also having a separate GPS with limited memory and I have to remember to copy my track off before it overwrites and ... ... ..)

Anyway that is my 2 cents based on what I understand of the technology at the moment, would still love to hear from anyone that is making use of APRS in any way, or has any plans for it beyond what I listed ( or comments on any of this ).

16bravolima

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2012, 08:59:59 PM »
Bryan,

I use APRS all the time.  I have a transmitter in my airplane.  It is my primary safety equipment in the event of an emergency as it pinpoints my location, altitude, speed and direction of flight to within a few meters in near real time. 

I live in a very mountainous area so I even set up an i-Gate in my home to provide additional coverage.  You can check out my latest flight http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FN16BL&timerange=3600.

I bought my aprs transmitter, antenna and gps puck for around $200 from www.byonics.com.  It is the FT-8000 and transmits 10 watts on 144.39MHz.
Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine

bryanthegoon

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 09:16:38 PM »
16bravolima,

the Byonics stuff looks interesting, I will have to do some more research on the different offerings that they have available.  If I am reading this right what you have is a fully contained unit that just transmits an aprs beacon, but doesn't have receive capability, is this correct?  This could be useful for a number of the situations I had outlined and makes perfect sense for your use in an airplane.

Like I said will be looking a little more at the other options they have available with additional functionality.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you using (hardware and software) for the i-Gate setup at your home?

Thanks,
Bryan

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2012, 09:57:54 PM »
If  you want to check out how APRS  works you can get an app that works on your iPhone/Pad. The app costs a few bucks but is a lot cheaper than buying all the radios etc

It can be set up to just receive or transmit the beacon.

I use this app with our local ARES group when we provide comms for local events like charity bike rides and walks.  It gives the net control the positions of all the resources that are in use for the event.

Just sayin'

Hazmat
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16bravolima

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2012, 08:36:22 PM »
16bravolima,

the Byonics stuff looks interesting, I will have to do some more research on the different offerings that they have available.  If I am reading this right what you have is a fully contained unit that just transmits an aprs beacon, but doesn't have receive capability, is this correct?  This could be useful for a number of the situations I had outlined and makes perfect sense for your use in an airplane.

Like I said will be looking a little more at the other options they have available with additional functionality.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you using (hardware and software) for the i-Gate setup at your home?

Bryan,

Byon (the main guru at Byonics) is a great guy and you should drop him an email and tell him what you are looking for.  He will save you some time and money.  They have a Yahoo support group called MicroTrak.

My i-Gate is running on a PC (WinXP) using UI-View32 and AGW Packet engine (both free downloads).  I use a Radio Shack scanner to monitor the frequency and replaced the rubber duck antenna with about 25 ft of coax and a cheap 2M antenna.  It works great!
Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine

16bravolima

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 08:41:18 PM »
Bryan,

The unit I am using in the plane is called the MT-RTG http://www.byonics.com/mt-rtg as in "ready to go".  It is a transmitter only.  They also sell units with digipeters built in but at 12,000 feet I can transmit over 500 miles  ;).
Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine

firewallsrus

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 06:19:14 PM »
I got a good deal on a used Yaesu VX-8Gr with built-in GPS receiver and APRS capable.  It sat on a shelf for several months because it took me a while to spring for batteries and a drop-in charger for it.
Once I started tinkering with it and using it, I found it pretty fun to work with.  APRS is typically used to report Location, altitude, speed and direction.  I had fun having my wife track my progress on trips via the APRS.FI website.  While using it, I noticed it was harvesting the information from other APRS transmitters as well and a few of them had extra text in the APRS packet.  In order to access APRS, my Yaesu has a built-in 1200 baud modem and pretty much any brief text message can be sent using the APRS protocol.  This leads me to at least two "unusual" applications.

1) A connection between traffic radar detector and APRS transmitter could automatically pinpoint speed traps for motorists.  Since most of the mobile APRS radios are capable of relaying the traffic as well as simply sending and receiving, this means traffic reports could span miles of freeway.  I am not advocating breaking the law here, it is just a possible application for the technology.

2) Connection of a cheap handheld radio to a PC or laptop via modem would enable some pretty detailed telemetry.  Which motion detectors are being tripped, which barn doors have been left open too long, which gate just got opened, The temperature in the incubator, and even the water level in the livestock's watering trough.

Any thoughts???

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 07:19:51 PM »
Interesting FW. I use APRS on my Galaxy S5 phone since I don't have a radio with it enabled.  My have been thinking about TinyTracker as the guy who build,them is here in AZ about 10 miles from me. 
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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 11:30:50 AM »
Post #2, lost the first one somehow..

I have been using it since 2013. I use the RTG-50 from Byonics. While it's a neat compact unit and the service is good, mine has been sent back twice for one reason or another.  The company has not fixed the crappy connector on the unit, which is a bit frustrating. It has hosteled loose a couple of times. That being said, this time in for service, he's going to dial the wattage back to about 30, to try and keep from burning out some chip.

It is a neat toy, and can be handy. I've used it so people can track trips, locations, visitors families can track their location, locating and tracking other folks. Distance and bearings are handy to have, however with the Byonics unit, you will rely on aprs.fi the only useful web site to obtain the output and others in your area. A radio with aprs integrated would should distance and bearings, very useful.

One other handy factor is the ability of some units to collect telemetry. I find it handy to track my voltages and compartment temperature to see what the solar is doing, and stuff like that.

All in all if you can install it, and keep it simple, it can be handy. My concern is the total lack of coherent documentation on aprs, and the fact there is only one really nice aprs web site, http://aprs.fi which is very useful. You can use that to see what kind of coverage and use aprs is getting in your area.

I hope this helps.

firewallsrus

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 09:19:20 PM »
...3. I am having a hard time finding a list/search specifically of digipeaters.  In order for this to be worth the investment to me I want to be able to use it in some remote locations and want to see what kind of digipeater access there is in specific areas.  Anyone have any links they can share?
There are digipeaters (most APRS radios can be configured to be digipeaters.  With a typical configuration, your APRS packet is broadcast with a time to live (TTL) of two hops.  Many mobile radios are configured to automatically digipeat those packets (subtracting one hop from the TTL).  This means that any packets you send out will likely hit several radios on its way to an Internet Gateway. 

To find out how active APRS is in your area, I recommend two things:
1) tune a 2 meter radio to the national APRS frequency: 144.39 MHz and listen to that for a while.  APRS packets sound like an old style telephone modem making a connection.  It only takes a second or two for the entire packet to send.
2) go to APRS.FI and scroll around to a map of your area.  Go ahead and open it up to a wide area and see the different types of devices reporting in.

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Re: APRS - Who is using it
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 05:02:28 AM »
Used it for a while, but the benefits never outweighed losing one side of my radio for. I even used a Maxtrac as a stand-alone in my work truck so the xyl could see where I was, but the new of that for her wore out after about a week (and she is a ham). It has a lot of fun uses, but text takes too long to type in, I don't care for anyone who knows my callsign to have the ability to pinpoint my location, and I don't like dedicating half my radio to it. I used a tiny-track 3 (IIRC) and a Kenwood 710, then moved it to a Maxtrac, then sold it at a ham fest. Good luck with it though!
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