Author Topic: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....  (Read 15630 times)

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bryanthegoon

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HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« on: July 19, 2012, 01:24:35 AM »
Figured I would hit up the community here for some Antenna ideas.  I am in a dreaded HOA.... but I should be able to get off alittle easier than most, mine doesn't seem to be too draconian (really all they seem to complain about is trashcans left out too long and weeds) and my lot backs up to a field.  Also my house is a 2 story, the houses on either side are 1 story and are rentals, I am not worried about anyone in the houses directly to either side of me complaining.  And there is only one house on each side.  I honestly think I can get away with just about anything in the back yard as long as it isn't easily visible from the front on a drive by.  Because of the farmers field the back side of my house is only visible from from the road from over 1/4 mile away at the closest.  Nearest houses behind are over 1/2 mile away and a different sub division.

This will be (for the moment at least) for my Kenwood TS-520S which I have a manual tuner, Kenwood AT-230.  This tuner /rig has been used in the past with just a random wire (on 80 meters) with some success by my grandfather... but these days he mostly just gets on a local net and hits some other fairly local people (1-2 states away)....

Here is a satellite pic, it is the house in the middle


Here is a top view with distances


And here is what the profile looks like


There is a balcony on the left which turns into a covered patio going to the right across the back of the house.  The roof is tile and most of the house has vaulted ceilings, so I don't think I can pull off anything in the attic.  Because there is no one behind me one thought I had was to run some kind of dipole (or g5rv or something) from the peak of the roof to the back fence (block), if done at the middle of the house this would likely not be visible from the street at all

I also was given a Solarcon A-99 (basically a CB antenna but it is supposed to tune to 10 ,12, and 15 pretty easily.  it is a 17 foot vertical (I believe it is described as a 1/2 wave over a 1/4 wave).  One thought was as an option to mount this to the railing on the balcony.  This would likely not be visible from the front (if done towards the middle of the house) and would space it 8 foot from the wall of the house.  I would likely not have good signal to the north but would I be causing RF problems in the house?  (the solarcon if used would probably be in addition to something else for the lower (frequency) bands.

At the end of the day I am looking for one or two options for HF that
a. aren't going to piss off the HOA
b. ideally are up all the time
c. ideally are not at ground level where the kids can mess with it

I do already have some paint the same color as the outside of the house.

Thanks in advance,
Bryan
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 01:28:43 AM by bryanthegoon »

scubadivingjoe

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 10:31:28 AM »
So you have a tiled roof?  Why I ask is I had my dipole running very close to the tile and it was interfering with my signal, so i had to move it.  Also way is the N-S length of your home, it looks like its 32 feet. You could put one end of the Dipole on the N-W corner under the eve and the other end out at the fence.  The wire is thin so most people don't see it.  That is the way i have mine.  Also i use a X-50A Diamond antenna for 2m, you could put that on the balcony.  I also have a HOA.  My 2m is in a tree in my back yard 

bryanthegoon

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 11:21:01 AM »
Thanks for the ideas

Yes I do have a tile roof, didnt even think about it interfering from being too close.

As far as N-S length... the second story is about 32 feet... the First story (garage) actually sticks out alittle further(like 8 feet or something) in the front on the southwest side of the house.

The idea with the N/W eave and the fence could potentially work.  How much risk for RF exposure would that pose in the second story of the house as part of the antenna would end up right on the other side of the wall.  for the moment at least I don't anticipate pushing more than 100 watts.

What is the total length on your dipole?  Do you have a bauln going straight to coax? or ladder line?

I have already been thinking about building a 2m J-pole to mount on the balcony, thou will check into the X-50A.  Unfortunately I don't have any trees to offer assistance at this time.

Sorry if some of the questions have a newbie tinge to them, this is my first time setting up an HF antenna...

AD

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 11:40:19 AM »
BTG

Give us lot dimensions. 
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

spacecase0

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 12:18:38 PM »
one of my friends did an LDG S9 antenna on a swivel mount (made of pipe and fittings),
he just puts it up when he is using it with a single tilt and pin to hold it,
I know that it is not always up, but it is so very easy to put up that way...

his house layout is very close to your layout, but he has a corner lot and the shack is on the second floor..
he had a g5rv antenna set up out of sight at his fence line before and the LDG S9 works way way better

I might be tempted to try a bent g5rv type of antenna using magnet wire (very hard to see) from the corners of your fence back to your balcony and see how well it works.

and remember that you can put up a few antennas and switch from one to the other and find out what one you want to leave up.

bryanthegoon

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 01:06:27 PM »
Give us lot dimensions.

Entire lot is 110 deep by 65 wide according to the county plat maps (I will measure when I get home to confirm) I believe that this includes the sidewalk up front.

one of my friends did an LDG S9 antenna on a swivel mount (made of pipe and fittings),
he just puts it up when he is using it with a single tilt and pin to hold it,
I know that it is not always up, but it is so very easy to put up that way...

Did he just have this on the ground?  or on a second story deck or something?  Also I see three models (all vertical)  (18', 31', and 43') you happen to know which one it was?  Sounds like another possibility if it was easy enough to put up and not something the kids could easily hurt or get hurt on when it was down.  They also seem to be reasonably priced.

I might be tempted to try a bent g5rv type of antenna using magnet wire (very hard to see) from the corners of your fence back to your balcony and see how well it works.

What do you mean by a bent g5rv (I know what a g5rv is but not sure what is meant by "bent")  Is this just letting the ends hang down?  or not being quite straight out (ie would look like a V from above)?  After reading again I am think that might be what you mean, one end at each back corner and the middle at the house ?  (if so I didn't realize you could do that with a g5rv, and if so will that work with any dipole).  In my neighborhood I believe I could get away with something like this easily.

and remember that you can put up a few antennas and switch from one to the other and find out what one you want to leave up.

I am all for this idea as long as they are all decently priced ;)

scubadivingjoe

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 02:53:35 PM »
This one is 132 feet and it can go to 80 meters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCF-Dipole-Windom-All-Band-80-6-meters-Ham-Antenna-/170630136156?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item27ba59415c

This one is 66 feet and can go to 40 meters, this is the one i have.  I have made contacts over 2000 miles away.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCF-Dipole-Windom-All-Band-40-6-meters-Ham-Antenna-/170624100482?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item27b9fd2882


I also added this Vertical Radiator Attachment Kit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCF-Windom-Vertical-Radiator-Attachment-Kit-1500-watts-/140572392172?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item20bac47aec

This seller is very nice and if you have a problem you can call him and he hill help you over the phone. 

spacecase0

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 05:36:47 PM »
sorry I left out so many details,
it was the 31 foot version so that if the tuner breaks it can still be used direct on 40M (same reason I got one)
and it is on the ground (you could put ground radials in the air but this would be harder )
not sure if it would be easily hurt, likely depends on how hard your kids play, I could step on mine and it would be ok, if I jumped on it likely not.
but it also just slips over a pipe you put in the ground, so you could pull it off and lay it next to the fence or house so it is out of the way.


and by bent g5rv I did mean just bend it to the shape you need it, a loop is likely the best shape for them (just don't get the far ends to close to each other at the opposite side from the feed point )
and it does work with many dipoles as well
here is one that is used for 2M to make it omnidirectional
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-000700

bryanthegoon

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 05:47:43 PM »
Thanks for all the info and ideas guys, if anyone thinks of anything else keep them coming.

And sorry for the over abundance of questions, I tend to go overboard on research before doing anything, I am alittle OCD that way.

So one completely different question.  Does everyone just ground their rigs?  or do you use some kind of in-line grounding block for the coax?

BTPost

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2012, 06:05:12 PM »
I just did a little Cadd work and it seems to me that if you put a 1.5' Pole at the peak of the roof on the left hand side of your drawing, and a 20' pole at
the lower Right hand corner of your property, that you could stretch a 89' total length straight dipole, between the two. the the Center Balun well above
the elevation of the Deck. Then use RG58 to come in from the Balun to the edge of the deck, and switch to RG-8 at that point, and run around the house,
to the Radio room. That gives you 44 Ft on each leg of the dipole which would have a natural Resonance at somewhere around 5.5 Mhz... With ANY kind of tuner, at all, you could make this work on 75 meters and up very easily..... Just Say'en..... YMMV.... and Noone could see anything from the front of the house....
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 08:10:37 PM by BTPost »
Bruce in alaska AL7AQ

idial1911

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 06:22:09 PM »
Damn you all are no joke.. Taking out the CAD diagrams and everything.
The more I learn, the less I know.

bryanthegoon

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 12:55:35 AM »
I just did a little Cadd work and it seems to me that if you put a 1.5' Pole at the peak of the roof on the left hand side of your drawing, and a 20' pole at
the lower Right hand corner of your property, that you could stretch a 89' total length straight dipole, between the two. the the Center Balun well above
the elevation of the Deck. Then use RG58 to come in from the Balun to the edge of the deck, and switch to RG-8 at that point, and run around the house,
to the Radio room. That gives you 44 Ft on each leg of the dipole which would have a natural Resonance at somewhere around 5.5 Mhz... With ANY kind of tuner, at all, you could make this work on 75 meters and up very easily..... Just Say'en..... YMMV.... and Noone could see anything from the front of the house....

I like this idea but have some questions 

If I am understanding correctly you are saying that with a tuner I could essentially tune anything HF (other than 160m) off of this without any kind of traps, correct?

What would I use for a bauln, just a simple 1:1 because I am feeding a dipole with 50 ohm coax.... as an example something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-BALUN-For-Ham-Radio-Simple-Dipole-Antenna-2-KW-PEP-Dependable-/170868965974?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item27c8958256#ht_3909wt_1396
or possibly something like this
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=18314

And would the balun be ok "hanging in the wind" so to speak?

What kind of wire would you typically use for the dipole?

sorry again for the excessive questions, just learning a thing or two here

And thanks to everyone for all the effort put into these answers, it is much appreciated.

spacecase0

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 01:54:32 PM »
I ground the system at my antenna switch,
or at the ground rod outside if it is a vertical or the connection is run from a tower,
I have never grounded a system on the coax cable, I would be worried about letting in moisture if I took off the insulator on the outside

AD

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 02:50:52 PM »
BTG

This is what i use for the pass through and lighting grounding. http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/EntrancePanels.html



A little pricy, but the quallity is great and it works well. 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:52:34 PM by AD »
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

bryanthegoon

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 03:00:29 PM »
BTG

This is what i use for the pass through and lighting grounding. http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/EntrancePanels.html



A little pricy, but the quallity is great and it works well.

Thanks for the link, this is pretty much what I was picturing but not finding anywhere :)
Certainly is a bit pricey thou  will have to think about what I want to do from that angle.