Author Topic: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please  (Read 6238 times)

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Freedom Forged

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Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« on: January 30, 2016, 03:19:40 PM »
Hello all. I have room for a 30 foot mast.  I'm trying to get above the roof line at least.  It's not ideal but it's all I can do right now.  I was thinking about an MFJ Mast.  I'm looking for suggestions on an HF vertical antenna.  I'm primarily interested in 20, 40, 80. Any help would be appreciated.
David
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 03:37:21 PM by Freedom Forged »

AD

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 06:34:37 PM »
FF

I was using mono band PAR/LNR Precission End Fedz wires and they worked good in my HOA but were bejind a 3 foot dia pine tree which did not help the signal.  These were good as they did not need an antenna tuner

I then built a mono band hamstick dipole. Not optimal cuz its mono band and you have to manually rotate it cuz you have main lobes of the sides of the antenna. 

Here is a quick bolg post I did on it. 
http://www.preparedham.com/a-stealthy-hoa-hamstick-directional-dipole/

I editing the video for this project now.

I got the painters pole for $35 and the 40 meter hamsticks along with the mount for ~$50.

There are many other soluntions for verticals but I have no forst hand experience with them. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 06:38:20 PM by AD »
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

AD

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 06:46:36 PM »
Here is a pic of that next to my 2 story house. The painters pole is 22 ft and I have it on a AV stand that goes to 10 feet.

The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

Tempstar

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 07:00:59 PM »
chameleonantennas.com
"Preparedness is a lot more than just buying stuff"

Tevin

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2016, 07:23:27 PM »
Hello all. I have room for a 30 foot mast.  I'm trying to get above the roof line at least.  It's not ideal but it's all I can do right now.  I was thinking about an MFJ Mast.  I'm looking for suggestions on an HF vertical antenna.  I'm primarily interested in 20, 40, 80. Any help would be appreciated.
David

Hello and welcome to Prepared Ham!

The MFJ mast may or may not be ok depending on what you're looking at. They have several flavors. The telescoping versions are not meant for permanent installs and probably will not support a vertical. They are flexible like a fishing pole so any unsecured weight up there is going to make it top heavy and unstable. The MFJ masts are more useful as a tie point (for example, holding up the center of a dipole), or perhaps a 2 meter antenna.

As for antennas, very few roof mounted verticals work well on 80 and many of them aren't too hot on 40 either. How bad do you want 80 meters?

I can't tell you what to get but I can tell you what not to get: Any roof mounted vertical antenna that claims to work on 80 up to 6 meters (or beyond) is probably a loser. They are what I call "Swiss Army knife" devices: They do everything half-assed well, but no one thing exceptionally well. The antenna AD details in his blog is a well tested design that is an acceptable tradeoff of space/visibility and performance.

If you have room in your yard for a vertical with buried ground radials, that would probably work better than any roof version. You do not have to dig up the yard or do any major excavating. When I installed mine, I just cut through the turf with a hunting knife and shoved the wire down an inch or two. The more radials, the better.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 07:25:40 PM by Tevin »

Freedom Forged

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 08:14:35 PM »
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I was looking at this one (below).  I just ordered a piece of 80 schedule 1-1/2 aluminum pipe which has a very thick wall.  2 feet will go into the ground.  The next 10 feet will be strapped to and supported by a 6x6 that also supports my deck so only 8 feet of the pipe will be unsupported.  On this pipe is where I was planning to mount the antenna shown below.  Please let me know your thoughts......
Thanks, David
http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/base_hf_4_band.html
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 08:20:45 PM by Freedom Forged »

Tevin

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 08:33:13 PM »
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I was looking at this one (below).  I just ordered a piece of 80 schedule 1-1/2 aluminum pipe which has a very thick wall.  2 feet will go into the ground.  The next 10 feet will be strapped to and supported by a 6x6 that also supports my deck so only 8 feet of the pipe will be unsupported.  On this pipe is where I was planning to mount the antenna shown below.  Please let me know your thoughts......
Thanks, David
http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/base_hf_4_band.html

Wow, I had an early version of the 4BTV back when I got into hamming!

The antenna is roof mountable but you will still need radials. It will technically work without radials but with greatly reduced performance.

Here is a link to the manual. The roof mount radial section starts on page 45:

http://static.dxengineering.com/pdf/btv-install-guide-rev0c.pdf


Freedom Forged

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 09:04:38 PM »
DO you think I would still need the radials if I ground mount the 4BTV?
David

Tevin

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 07:33:43 AM »
DO you think I would still need the radials if I ground mount the 4BTV?
David

It will work to a point. Without radials you are giving up a lot of the potential of great antenna. Even a few short radials will be a big help. Mine had only 6-8 radials that weren't even all the same length and I got some respectable DX off it. Some of my radials were only a few feet long.

Don't fuss too much if you can't do every little thing by the book. Ham radio, especially survival/prepping ham radio, is about doing the best you can with what you have.


Freedom Forged

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2016, 08:21:22 AM »
You make a good point and it's well taken.  I was also looking at a R-8 last night.  I don't see any mention of ground radials with it.  A local ham has an R-7 on a mast with no radials that seems to like very much.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on it is you don't mind.  I've always had good luck with Cushcraft products in the past .

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this!
David

http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=R-8

AD

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2016, 08:46:56 AM »
FF

Even if it was deck mounted, you can run radials down to the ground then out,  you can run them along the deck railings or the deck base. 

Every antenna is a compromise, so instal it and modify it with any radials you can add and chexk the noise level as well as your signal reports recvd.
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

Freedom Forged

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2016, 08:56:29 AM »
AD, to your point I could add the radials attaching them to the aluminum mast at ground level wouldn't you think?

Would it matter that they were 20 feet below the antenna???

« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 11:30:31 AM by Freedom Forged »

Freedom Forged

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2016, 09:42:00 AM »
Also, just to let you guys know, my situation is this.  I have no trees, no poles and can't afford a tower.  I can't get into my attic.  My deck on the rear of my house offered a spot on the corner for me to secure a 24 foot piece of schedule 80 (very thick wall) aluminum pipe for me to attach my small 3 element 2 meter yagi.  More than half of the pipe is supported by the 6x6 that supports the deck so it's very solid.  I was trying to come up with something to install there.  My options are very limited.  We have a HOA but nothing seems to be enforced but I'm trying to keep what I erect either looking nice or fairly invisible.  My antenna is the last item in my arsenal. My shack is ready to go with that one exception.  I have a brand new Icom 7200 that I got for Christmas, a power supply, LDG tuner, SWR/Watt meter and coax.  I'm 95% there.  The antenna part is cutting my %#*.  So, any and all help is very much appreciated.  I mentioned 80 but it's not as important to me as 20 and 40.  It has been 20 years since I have been on HF.  I want to have some fun with my radio but I want bands that will benefit me best for SHTF situation........
David
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 09:44:05 AM by Freedom Forged »

AD

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2016, 11:51:02 AM »
FF

Just toss it up and try.  You never know what will work.

You can always out a small American flag on it and make it Legit.  Law says you are allowed a flag pole  8)

You can always try to run a random length wire around the deck and see what it does before you buy the Vert. You never no how well it will/wont work until you try it.  That way you can get on the air now.

Guys have great success with random wires around wooden fences 6 feet high
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 11:53:35 AM by AD »
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

Lamewolf

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Re: Suggestions wanted on and HF Base Vertical Antenna Please
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 12:09:10 PM »
Hello all. I have room for a 30 foot mast.  I'm trying to get above the roof line at least.  It's not ideal but it's all I can do right now.  I was thinking about an MFJ Mast.  I'm looking for suggestions on an HF vertical antenna.  I'm primarily interested in 20, 40, 80. Any help would be appreciated.
David

Have you looked at the MFJ-2386 ?  3.5 to 54 MHz no tuner needed ?