Author Topic: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works  (Read 10925 times)

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Quietus

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 10:50:32 PM »
Thanks for all the advice and responses and the congrats on the extra ticket. ........... ..................  I can already tell you are way smarter than I am.
Asatrur
 
This is most certainly not the case.  A person starts the learning of antennas after testing, not while studying for tests.  JMO.
 
Have fun as you cut wire and raise your dipole.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 11:05:53 PM by Quietus »

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 11:05:03 PM »
 
This is most certainly not the case.  A person starts the learning of antennas after testing, not while studying for tests.  JMO.

Yea, what he said!!!!
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

RazorCityDen

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2012, 01:15:38 PM »
Quietus & RCD: Am tickled beyond words that your efforts bore fruit. Great job guys. The 600mi contact on 40m - chalk it up to "catastrophic success" on one of the best-but-most-finicky bands on the planet. Well done indeed gents!

For others, there are some pretty good homebrew versions of the venerable AS-2259 out there, google can be your friend. Tip: just read them thoroughly as there are some who are quoting recipes for that antenna running dimensions for the mil bands they were spec'd for. So do your math & cry less. A few already have tweaked the recipe for the results that Q & RCD speak of. Maybe you have some old camo netting poles around or extra PVC from a project anyway. Use your imagination & develop the situation and remember that if you learned something when it didn't work, it was worthwhile as long as you factor it in the next time.

Copy that on the NVIS antenna recipes, the element lengths seem to be all over the place. We definitely did the math for ourselves and cut ours a little generous. My FT-897D has an internal SWR meter and that's what we used to prune them into resonance. 

Take care,

RazorCityDen

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 01:34:12 PM »
I have to take issue with my compadre Quietus! 8)

I think this antenna would be a worthy project for a first HF antenna for the General Class amateur. All the basics of dipole antenna construction and design are present and for many it will be easier to erect than a high and horizontal multi-band. With a screw post center connector the antenna becomes 'modular' in the sense any element length can be used and the connector can be suspended high and horizontal on 20, 17 and 10 meter bands if you want. In effect the antenna becomes a kit that can do short and long range com. 

IMO getting up on local nets is more interesting and useful than chatting with some guy on the east coast. I usually listen long and talk short! :)

Take care,

Quietus

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2012, 07:02:50 PM »
Could be you're right there RCD, in your opinion that the AS-2259 knock-off might be a good first build.  Low mast height, ends of wires are close to ground level for easy SWR adjustment, etc.  When I said that this one shouldn't be a first project, I was thinking that many want to reach out to the world, and not keep their comm ability confined to a smaller area.  Touche.
 
But a person has to realize the ground footprint of this antenna, it is 120' or so from peg to peg on one side, and  upwards of 40' on the other.  I'd call it a camping antenna... or, if a person is going to run it from his residence, population demographics being what they are... it might be named the Tobacco Road antenna.  In a built-up area, this construct will get attention.  Couldn't say whether or not it will attract tornados
 
On provenance for this project:  The antenna is RCD's, I just helped on the build.  It's not a new design, impetus to make it was pushed our way from member KC9TNH who has been great help to me as a baby-stepper  in the HF world.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 07:22:17 PM by Quietus »

Quietus

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2012, 02:02:47 PM »
Make dipoles. They are cheap.
 
It's hard to go wrong with that advice.  But as that is said, why not consider the tri-band inverted V dipole, put up at a short, campground-type height?
 
Some antennas work for the world, people get into that, I'm not immune.  I keep track of my DX contacts.  Best would have been one into Croatia, but since he couldn't get my call in 3x and told me to try back later, I'd say my signal was only going as far as Slovenia or Dalmatia.   Life is full of small disappointments.
 
As I got into HF I was told by various people, in basically the same words, that you have to decide on what you want out of your HF purchase and antenna construct.  My take from that tailored advice, is that you can give Gruess Gott from Stalingrad to Berlin, you can do DX, or you can talk to people close to you on HF that most traditional HF antennas won't get you contact with.
 
This particular antenna construct, the knock-off AS-2259 with wires cut for 80, 60, and 40, has recently been proving its ability to talk close, outside of the range of VHF and inside the range of what might be commonly thought to be HF distances.
 
Most antenna constructs for HF, are built for range.  The one described, is built for local and regional use, for when VHF unaided, can't work, and VHF repeaters don't work anymore due to whatever reasons.  Repeaters are a weak link, I'd not put much faith in the continued use of them... unless of course, they are home-built with home maintenance.  Can't say I know much of the good side of reliance on VHF repeaters.
 
I was talked into a regional net, a farm net, most of the seven calls I copied down are Extras, remainder are Advanced or General status.  These people, ranging from 80 to 365 miles away, are just good folks from listening to the talk on that freq.  Some have vehicle problems, such as a '98 Blazer that runs fine but won't start again when hot until cooled down.  Much advice there, given out among old friends with the welcoming of new people [Does that sound sort of like a survival situation?  If so, grab popcorn now]
 
For me, that is the reason for HF radio, why I got licensed and all, and why I am trying to learn what works on HF.  I'd sooner speak to somebody next door who might prove to be of mutual help, than to make contacts with people who will forever remain strangers in some far-off place.
 
The previously-described AS-2259 knock-off, with wires cut for ham bands, seems to be proving itself on a local and regional level.
 
Picture it:  An antenna capable of going out 400 miles in daylight hours and more at night, that is only 15' tall and capable by one person of being put up in fifteen minutes, by two people in much less than that time.  One that can help the radio to talk and receive on HF within thirty miles.  Forget the footprint, it's pretty large at 120'.  All that is needed is a small patch of open ground.

spacecase0

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2012, 03:42:02 PM »
I kind of want an antenna like this for HF
http://gvarc.us/GVARCFrames/Titan/Discone/Discone.htm

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2012, 09:40:48 PM »
It's about 1.5 hours south of me.  Right in Sig Int backyard. 
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

RazorCityDen

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2012, 02:38:16 PM »
The next one I'm going to build is going to be 40/80 meter NVIS. Have a mast made of 'replacement' tent poles with elements made of 18 gauge wire with a smaller center connector. Probably will do away with the 2.5' poles at the end and use lw aluminum stakes.

The 60 meter elements would probably be better relpaced with 20, 17 and 10 meter elements so the antenna could be used for long range HF com. Throw in a 2 meter flexible 'J' and make the kit complete.

Right now everything (but the mast) for the 40, 80, 60 antenna fits in an OD green, folding chair bag I found at the Salvation Army for .50 cents.

At this point I've worked dozens of stations with the antenna some well out of it's advertised range, the other night I had a solid QSO with a guy in WI, bounce that off routine chat with stations less than 20 miles away.

Take care, 



 

Quietus

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2012, 06:39:10 PM »
The book sez that your project won't work, dude.  Then again, it might.  But going to 18 gauge, there is some loss with that choice.  Why 18g?
 
Folks following this short range antenna project, might take heart at knowing that comms on schedule  have been done with it at 350 miles or so.  And experiments with reducing of the wattage have been done.
 
It appears as if, with proper antennas, people can talk to each other on 80m and at 10 watts, from close distance, 350 miles. 

KC9TNH

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2012, 12:29:34 PM »
Throw in a 2 meter flexible 'J' and make the kit complete.
I made a 2m J-pole out of 75 cents worth of 300-ohm twin-lead from the retiring mom/pop TV store in town. Not a panacea, need to get it up outta the mud, but that, a Pomona adapter and a length of RG-58 go into a ziploc bag. The exact dimensions are here somewhere, stolen from an extremely fastidious drawing done by another opr.

I'll get to finding it as soon as I can finish DF'ing that station out west that was runnin' low-power on some hybrid-polarized rig, apparently with a high takeoff angle...  - let's see, I know they're somewhere west of Omaha, dagnabbit!  Hmmmm, might be awhile...
 8)

ERRATA: Started with the antenna dimensions here. It works; I did put a Type-43 clamp-on at the coax right below the adapter at the feedpoint and it keeps the SWR within reason just as built. Can be tweaked for the nit-picky; my 817 is probably losing few tenths of a watt but as long as it hits the repeater it's golden from there. (Operated with great success with his $-Store Special thrown wire scheme as well fwiw.)

« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 01:37:19 PM by KC9TNH »

spacecase0

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2012, 06:33:37 PM »
I have never tired the 300ohm version,

I built one of 450 ohm ladder line
http://www.hamuniverse.com/ke4nu450slimjim.html
now that I look at the instructions, I built mine wrong...
mine is more like this one
http://home.comcast.net/~buck0/ll_coolj.html
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 06:37:26 PM by spacecase0 »

KC9TNH

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 08:39:20 PM »
I have never tired the 300ohm version,

...mine is more like this one
http://home.comcast.net/~buck0/ll_coolj.html
Thanks, looks interesting. I only used a 300-ohm setup 'cause that's what I had dimensions for, the wire was cheap, and so am I.

Enjoyed reading your comcast version; I like the tip about a dab of hotglue onto the open areas. Learning something new is a good thing. Mine does pretty good but needs to be hoisted up a bit for best results - just reaching up to hang it on a tree won't get it done. It likes to be up a bit so it's 30# test braided line & a sinker... although I once just got onto a perfect little branch with the extending snow brush from the truck. Necessity is the Mother of... and all that.
:)

RazorCityDen

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 03:58:50 PM »
The homebrew NVIS anttena has stood up to the test of time, been put up and taken down dozens of times with hundreds of contacts.
I dropped the 60 meter wires and the 3/4x24in. pvc legs since the guy lines have been well sorted out.

Lamewolf

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Re: Recent shorter-range HF antenna project, it works
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2014, 08:10:51 AM »
My short range portable antenna is very simple.  Its an off center fed dipole cut for 10 thru 80 meters (44' short leg, 88' long leg) and mounted at 15' at the center by a telescopic golf ball retriever pole and the ends about 3' off the ground by driving rebar in the ground and then slipping 1/2 pvc insulators over that.  The antenna itself acts as 2 guy wires and the at 90 degrees to that I use paracord to tent stakes.  A piece of rebar also supports the golf ball pole by just slipping it down over the rebar, but the rubber handle grip must be removed to expose the hollow pole.  With this arrangement and the built in tuner in my Icom 703 it will work all bands and does a super job at NVIS on 160, 80, 60, & 40 meters.